Strip 456 - "They're all Touch Attacks, too"

4th Mar 2017, 12:00 AM in Cave of No Return
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Jadelynn 4th Mar 2017, 12:44 AM edit delete reply
Jadelynn
If they were all touch attacks, wouldn't that be ungodly broken?
9652769 4th Mar 2017, 2:02 AM edit delete reply


sadly, they are all touch. but my question would be how did he do to recharge his weapon. Ammunition of firearm are not free.
Arillius 4th Mar 2017, 5:10 AM edit delete reply


Gunslingers can make firearm ammo at a significant discount. He's high enough level to have two attacks a round which means he's also high enough level to afford alchemic rounds.

With that and rapid reload you can reload as a free action, which means he doesn't need his hands open because the time it takes is so insignificant he can do it for free. So cheap, fast ammunition.

Also, if he's a Mysterious Stranger he gets extra charisma damage. If he's a paladin gunslinger, well, he's still got smite. Very powerful against evil targets but also very feat intensive.
Inbetweenbooks 4th Mar 2017, 8:00 AM edit delete reply


Benefit of being Bit brigade, you may stock up on any ammo you need at base?

Ment for archers, but abused by gunslingers kind of deal in a campaign

i could see a DM or a campaign builder make such a mistake since he wanted a small benefit in say a siege scenario where any range PC would otherwise run out of ammo instantly and be forced to just sitt there...
zombi3DS 9th Mar 2017, 5:46 AM edit delete reply
zombi3DS
The thing with the ammo is that people go oh wow a gp per bullet that's so inefficient man guns are so expensive having ammo and all. Gunslingers only pay 1 sp per bullet. Bullets for them can be made at the same price that one arrow costs.
Malroth 4th Mar 2017, 2:27 AM edit delete reply
Malroth
There's several ways to do it and the damage per round gets ludicrious very quickly, especially when combined with smite evil, the only real downside being the cost per bullet and being shoehorned into being the guy who can only deal damage.
Inbetweenbooks 4th Mar 2017, 7:57 AM edit delete reply


"more expencive, gimmicky and ... worse. But it works"
that, and still being worse than a properly decked out x-bow or archer archetype.

Except for using touch attacks, but that isn't really that big a deal in most cases. a properly built archer has a ridiculus to hit anyways, and i seem to remember a feat that allows you to do all your attacks as a single attack, using your highest bab... although we mostly used it to overcome dr
DeltaRayEdge 5th Mar 2017, 1:31 PM edit delete reply


Gunslingers can TWF effectively though, although "hands full" reloading requires some very specific feat lines, items or various ways to get an extra limb(s).

So I think they can get higher DPS.


iirc, archers can only do that with the light crossbows or otherwise using the a kasatha racial archetype specifically for dual wielding bows.

The gunslinger i built proceeded to get banned after just one session's boss fight.
zombi3DS 5th Mar 2017, 10:22 PM edit delete reply
zombi3DS
What you are are thinking of is clustered shot and gunslinger builds can use it too.
Malroth 5th Mar 2017, 12:47 AM edit delete reply
Malroth
Lets see each shot is doing 1d8+ dex +2x paladin level + 6 + weapon enchantments + either Cha mod or 1d6 depending on weither he went Pistolero or Mysterious stranger.

Average damage from a dex focused paladin5/Pistolero Gunslinger5 making 5 attacks with +1 corrosive/shocking guns is 143 compared to the 149 HP of the average Juvenile red dragon. Mysterious stranger would be higher but would require having actual CHA instead of being a callous jerk to his underlings.
zombi3DS 5th Mar 2017, 10:23 PM edit delete reply
zombi3DS
2x paladin level is on the first attack only. The rest of them are at paladin level.
zombi3DS 9th Mar 2017, 5:55 AM edit delete reply
zombi3DS
Oh wow I can't believe I missed that, that paladin has a much higher to hit than we thought or dragon trainer is unaware that deadly aim cause your attack to target regular ac.
DragonTrainer 9th Mar 2017, 7:53 PM edit delete reply
DragonTrainer
Here's a link to the firearms rules: www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/firearms/

Scroll down to "Range and Penetration" and you'll find the following passage:

Early Firearms: When firing an early firearm, the attack resolves against the target’s touch AC when the target is within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment. Unlike other projectile weapons, early firearms have a maximum range of five range increments.

Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms resolve their attacks against touch AC when the target is within the first five range increments, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full-range increment. Advanced firearms have a maximum range of 10 range increments.
zombi3DS 10th Mar 2017, 12:41 AM edit delete reply
zombi3DS
Hmm, I don't know how I hadn't noticed that before, it's not even errata. huh. Kind of an odd place for it though I don't know where I think it would be.
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